The Stormcloak Bible DEBUNKED PART 7

In the seventh part of this “bible” (colonel-killa-bee.tumblr.com/p…) the author talks about if the stormcloaks are wasting Skyrim’s resources or not, about if Ulfric was the true cause of the war and even about the Thalmor. Lets get started.

"From the Imperial perspective, Ulfric is causing this war by revolting, and they’re keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim by fighting Ulfric and preventing Talos worship." it is extrenely funny how he distorted the imperial arguments in this part (and I can already say that distorting facts to support his position is a characteristic of the author) because imperials do not say that the empire is keeping the Thalmor out by fighting Ulfric, they say that Ulfric's rebellion is actually preventing the Empire from rebuilding itself effectively and deal with the Thalmor as soon as possible. Also saying that the Empire is preventing Talos worship and not the Thalmor shows eighter ignorance or dishonesty from the author having in mind how:

> The Thalmor had to come personally to demand Ulfric's arrest after they found out the imperials were trying to secretly allow Talos worship in Markarth;

> There are no legionnares guarding the Thalmor Embassy or Northwatch Keep;

> Imperial soldiers are not sent to help Thalmor Justiciars around;

> The Thalmor Dossier about Ulfric reveals that they wanted to intervene in the war and save Ulfric from being executed, wich means that General Tullius refused to allow Elenwen to enter Helgen;

> If the player ends up becoming an enemy of the Thalmor to the point of the Thalmor sending troops specially to kill him/her, the Empire does not give a shit and does not send soldiers to assit the Thalmor;

Then he says that Ulfric was not the true cause of the war, what is already nonsense. First the war did not start when Ulfric killed Torygg, it became WORSE after that. Hadvar, Vuwulf and Solaf reveal that the war was already going on years before the return of the dragons and Hadvar specifically reveals that Torygg died months before Alduin attacked Helgen. And even if the war started when Torygg died: it would have never happened if Ulfric tried to use diplomacy instead of violence since Torygg was open to debate (if you say this to the author he will probably cry about how talking to the High King at "the belly of the beast" would be foolish... but KILLING the High King at the "belly of the beast"? Totally wise I suppose).

Now talking about the laws thing: Solitude was under IMPERIAL control, and by the imperial laws, the nords are allowed to follow their traditions IF such part of the tradition does not hurt anyone (that is why the nords are allowed to visit the Hall of the Dead, make war paints, have long hair and beards, worhip Shor, etc), so this already makes Ulfric’s action illegal. “But it not part of Skyrim’s laws” well this is the main problem with most stormcloaks: they do not distinguish law from tradition. Just because something is tradition it does not mean it should be a law (or that it would make sense to make it a law. Like forcing people to visit the Hall of the Dead would be just ridiculous). And being or not na actual law, such act is nonsense and savage as only the dumb brutes try to solve everything by using the sword. The art of ruling men (and also mer and beastfolk) is not just about battles and wars (that is also what dictatorships often do), it is more about debate and diplomacy, about trying to solve a problem without causing the deaths of many. All of this without mentioning that your physical abilities (and in this case magical abilities as well, since Ulfric used the Thum’m to unfairly kill Torygg) have absolutely nothing to do with your intelect and your efficiency in diplomacy.

The author says that "Skyrim law allows the Jarls to challenge the king or queen of Skyrim to a duel, and if the King is slain, a moot is called and then a new king or queen is decided" but as it turns out it is another arrow on his own knee. While it is true that the moot should be called when a king dies without direct heirs (www.imperial-library.info/cont… in the fourth paragraph), if by nordic tradition the king's widow is a direct heir Elisif should automatically becomke High Queen. If the widow is not considered a direct heir, the moot should be called with or without a war on (as the book does not mention any exception), but Ulfric not only does not want such Moot to happen (during the quest "The Jagged Crown", at least if you joined the Stormcloaks, he can be heard screaming "And Damn the moot!" when Galmar tells him that the jarls are upset and demand the Moot) and even says that it will not elect Elisif as long as HE has any say in it (and the tradition does not say the Jarl of Windhelm has any priority, you know). Ulfric's actions actually go AGAINST the nordic tradition.

When the author says "You might think that Empire law automatically overrules Skyrim law, but consider that in the Empire, slavery is illegal, and yet the Dunmer of Morrowind were allowed to continue the practice regardless" he shows ignorance regarding Morrowind's history, as slavery (that was actually outlawed by the king of Morrowind during the events of TES IV elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sl… “By 3E 433, it is mentioned that Helseth Hlaalu, the king of Morrowind, has outlawed slavery.[5]"* en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Helseth "Subsequently, he renounced the slave trade, setting the remaining Houses of Indoril and Redoran against him in a bloody civil war. Helseth emerged from the war battered, but without the loss of his essential powers, leaving the slave trade generally destroyed, and slavery without a foothold in all of Tamriel, although the practice persists in remote areas away from Mournhold") was allowed in Morrowind thanks to something called the Treaty of the Armstice (en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Armistic…) and the terms of the treaty allowed Morrowind to retain a high degree of self rule and allowing things that were not allowed in other imperial provinces in exchange for giving the Numidium for Tiber Septim and allowing the imperial forces to act in the province. Skyrim has no treaty like that.

Then he talks about the Thalmor (typical). Lets see what he says: “And if they did secede, the Thalmor would be removed from Skyrim altogether, and anyone that’s read my previous entries know that logistically, the Thalmor cannot invade Skyrim anyway, so the Empire do not in fact keep the Thalmor out, they are in fact the sole reason the Thalmor are there in the first place” you mean when you said that the Aldmeri Dominion can not invade Skyrim thanks to how treacherous the Sea of Ghosts is (and fuck the fact that the Atmorans, who did not have the same technology the Aldmeri Dominion has, have dominated such seas and used them to travel to Tamriel and raid it for centuries) while you said that the Empire could send reinforcements to Skyrim trough SHIPS (you know: passing trough Dominion controlled seas, going all the way from Hammerfell's to High Rock's seas only to reach the Sea of Ghosts in northern Skyrim)? Or how you mentioned that mountains would prevent the Thalmor from reaching Skyrim, even tough the Empire has managed to overcome that obstacle for centuries (with Tullius even saying that controlling The Rift would secure their communications with Cyrodiil during "Season Unending")?

Without mentioning that saying that “Empire do not in fact keep the Thalmor out, they are in fact the sole reason the Thalmor are there in the first place” is actually not true (it may look like a fact, but it is not), for this we just have to take a look at the so called "Markarth Incident" itself: Jarl Igmund and Cedran reveal that the Thalmor themselves demanded the Empire to arrest Ulfric, with Cedran even saying that a whole group of them personally came to Markarth for it. If by 4th Era 201 the Thalmor are directly acting in Skyrim, personally hunting arresting Talos worshippers, while a short time after the end of the Great War they did not personally do it, the Empire itself is not the (only) reason of why they are acting in Skyrim (and the only faction that could have made it worse by revaeling the Thalmor how Talos worship is strong in Skyrim is the Stormcloaks thelselves). The fact that the Thalmor were not present in Skyrim right after the Great War is also revealed by Alvor: en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Alvor "It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me." Alvor basically reveals that everything was just fine before Ulfric and his followers began agitating. If we take these clues and combine them, it becomes clear that, altough the Thalmor would be allowed to do it, the Dominion did not immdediately come to imperial lands to hunt down Talos worshippers, hoping the Empire would arrest them by itself and only after the events in Skyrim (in other words: the Stormcloak Rebellion) clearly showed the Empire was not doing it so the Thalmor decided to hunt Talos worshippers all by itself.

Then he talks about how the empire left Morrowind at it’s own during the Oblivion Crisis. *Sigh*, how many times will I have to refute Part 2? If the empire was having trouble protecting Cyrodiil, how in the name of the Aedra would the imperials be able to protect Morrowind? The best chance Morrowind had was being helped by the empire AFTER Cyrodiil defeated Dagon’s forces, otherwise both provinces would be weak against the daedra at the time (it is also funny how he blames the Empire for not helping Morrowind when the heart of the Empire is under attack, but does not give a shit about how Ulfric sends most of Windhelm's guards to the war to the point of them being barely able to investigate murders in the city, or about how Ulfric does nothing about bandits that do not threaten nord land as it is revealled by Brunwulf. Hypocrisy again). And at the moment he citated Adril Arano he shot himself (AGAIN). How? Due to what he previously said about slavery in Morrowind: if there is really slavery being illegally practiced in Morrowind, and House Redoran supports it form some reason, the currently weakned empire would face difficulties trying to find the slaves and their owners in Morrowind.

Then he talks about how the Empire “abandoned” Hammerfell (*sigh*, this post is gonna be just an enhanced Part 2, but that is okay). If the empire did not care about Hammerfell, then how can we explain General Decianus' decision? In the book it is explained that "In Hammerfell, General Decianus was preparing to drive the Aldmeri back from Skaven when he was ordered to march for Cyrodiil. Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of 'invalids' to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east. These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174, taking heavy losses on their retreat from harassing attacks by the Alik'r warriors." and this eventually helped to weaken Arannelya's army, what obviously helped the redguards of Hammerfell when they fought the weakned forces of Lady Arannelya to a standstill for five years. And if one still thinks that the empire really betrayed Hammerfell (in other words: if the empire had other choice), then it is worth mentioning another part of the book: "there is a great difference between agreeing to such terms under the mere threat of war, and agreeing to them at the end of a long and destructive war. No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. Titus II would have faced civil war. By 4E 175, most of the Empire welcomed peace at almost any price." and having in mind how I previously showed that the empire was in no shape to fight by 4E 175, then seeing the sign of the concordact as a betrayal is foolish (what would not be the case if it was signed by 4E 171).

Then the author says “And yes I know they say they can’t because they’re watching their southern border, so their answer instead is to run Skyrim’s economy and resources into the ground to protect their own interests, at the cost of Nord lives and money with little or no sacrifices of their own?” I think he never read Hadvar's dialogue in the UESP. Hadvar explains that the Empire only had it's attention caught after Ulfric killed Torygg, wich means that the Empire barely cared about Skyrim and it's resources for most of the war. And this contradicts what the author himself revealed in his post about the conversations in the Blue Palace, as one of the conversations there shows that Solitude alone has had more efforts towards the war than Cyrodiil itself (Bryling: “Simple. Let the Empire fight its own war, with its own funds, and without hijacking our supplies and soldiers. Let Haafingar rebuild.”), and it is dfinitely not like the imperial supporting provinces were just trying to protect themselves from the Stormcloaks.

About the rest of the dialogues dialogues: I already talked about them in Part 6 and showed that his observations about them are biased and nonsense. Also what he says here: “ If they really wanted to do what was best for the greater good and to defeat the elves, they’d have let the moot take its course, and unite with an independent Skyrim if Ulfric won, having an ally against the elves with full resources and a full army free of the casualties of a civil war because the Empire couldn’t let go of their source of free silver and bodies to protect themselves.” is nonsense since I already explained how the one preventing the Moot from happening is Ulfric, not the Empire.

Now to end this post: I already showed that the empire is not wasting Skyrim’s resources as they need such resources not only to continue to make Skyrim a good place to live, but also to rebuild themselves for an eventual second war against the Dominion… and the empire is now forced to use part of these resources for a war started by the Stormcloaks.

Well, the author already cried about this critique, saying that Tullius stuck in a stalemate with him until the dragonborn gets involved (and fuck the fact that this is just part of the game’s mechanics, to prevent any side from winning before the players joins one of them... and it is definitely not like Hadvar says that Tullius has turned things around for the Empire), saying that Rikke struggles to make Tullius take the rebels seriously (yet this is just a proof of what I said as a great imperial general would only underestimate his enemies if they were no match for the imperial legion if the legion decided to use everything it has), about how many rebels are former leggionaires (even tough they still not use the strategies the legion taught them) and also crying about the nords being the bulks of the empire (and fuck the fact that one can not win a war only with brute force, as strategy is also extremely important).






*oh wait, it appears that all I said is irrelevant because The Stormcloak Guy says the Wiki is full of misconceptions and that my points are irrelevant simply for using it. It is argumentum ad hominem but you know, someone that is biased does not care and fuck if the UESP, that the author heavily relies on, says the same.